Secular real return from stocks since investing at the August 2000 high compared with investing at the September 1929 high, twenty-four years out

 August 2000-August 2024 and September 1929-September 1953 both fall far short of 8.74% per annum real return September 1953-August 2000.

Real per annum return from January 1871-September 1929 was 8.34%.

 

 

 

Despite record highs in stocks in 2024, real return since the last secular peak in August 2000 still significantly lags previous periods of peak-to-peak returns

 

During four months in 2021, real return since August 2000 briefly hit the 5s: 5.06% in August, 5.02% in September, 5.17% in November, and 5.15% in December.

Real return swooned after that, as low as 3.63% in October 2022, making it seem like 2021 might have been a secular turning point.

But by October 2024 real return since August 2000 had recovered to 5.11%, and 5.2% in November, and 5.24% in December.

Is this the new secular peak?

Return might suggest, No, seeing how low it still is.

Valuation might suggest, Yes.

The annual average of the S&P 500 divided by GDP in trillions hit 186 in 2024, a level not seen since 1930 (228) on an annualized basis.

That ratio never got above 139 (2000) between 1937 (165) and 2020 (151).

And this ratio was 180 in 2021, 158 in 2022, and 155 in 2023, all unprecedented for the post-war.

But 186 in 2024 really takes the cake.

The price of the market is really, really rich for the return you get.

 

Real return from stocks was better under Trump I than under Biden

 

S&P 500 average real return, dividends fully reinvested

Nov 2016--Nov 2020: 13.18% per annum

Nov 2020--Nov 2024: 9.97% per annum

On a nominal basis it was a draw, that's how bad inflation was for stocks: Trump 15.33% per annum vs. Biden 15.39% per annum.

 

Although the Reagan Bull from July 1982--August 2000 was spectacular, yielding 18.99% nominal and 15.28% real, the actual Reagan era itself was still a huge battle with inflation

Nov 1980--Nov 1984: 10.5% nominal, 4.9% real

Nov 1984--Nov 1988: 17.06% nominal, 13.22% real.

Your reminder that average real return from stonks sux

S&P 500

 

August 2000 -- August 2024

4.90% per annum

August 1976 -- August 2000

10.49% per annum

 

 

Stocks markets are closed and mail won't be delivered today in honor of Jimmy Carter, because everything came to a halt under him, too

 OK, bond markets are open today, because SOMEONE has to pay for the 44% increase in the national debt which was racked up under Jimmy Carter.

Stonks soared, nominally, under Jimmy at 11.81% per annum on average January 1977 to January 1981, but because inflation was so terrible, 10.43%, real return for the S&P 500 clocked in at only 1.25% per annum during his presidency.

Secular bear Rosie not throwing in the towel . . . again

 Rosie was on the wrong side of the trade in April 2011 when the bear went bullish. Is he again now?

He uses the same phrase, too, "not throwing in the towel", lol.

In April 2011 he claimed he wasn't throwing in the bear towel after the S&P 500 had already recovered from the 2008 debacle. Then the market slid 20% all the way to October 3, 2011, with the index falling to 1099 again, right where it was exactly three years earlier on the very same date.

It was . . . spooky!

If you had followed his take that April, you'd have lost 20% again. On top of all your losses in 2008. Ouch. Ouch.

Many of us who had kept our powder dry couldn't believe it in October 2011. We thought we were headed back to the depths of March 2009 again, too, just like the last time the market fell to 1099. I mean, that was a free-fall from there in 2008. TARP got signed in a panic that week to stop it, to no avail.

But October 2011 turned out to be more of a retest than we realized, one of the last great buying opportunities of the period. It was a brutal, crushing period of doubt, which some of us still live with.

Now it's the reverse, with unbelievable euphoria everywhere, with the S&P 500 at 6075.

A period of euphoria seems to me like a damned strange time to throw in the bear towel again, after missing out for two years by his own admission. I have no idea if Rosie is the contrary indicator he appears to be.

But the valuation of the market is pre-1920s crazy right now. It is literally not on the charts of our experience in the post-war, or even from the roaring '20s. We have GDP of $29.354 trillion, meaning a valuation of 207, when fair value has been 81 since the Great Depression.

I'm not in it, and I intend to keep staying out, because I can.

Good luck out there to those of you who go where angels fear to tread.

Stocks remain wildly overvalued and seriously underperforming

 The S&P 500 averaged 5,792.32 in October 2024 (the all-time high was on 10/18 at 5,864.67).

Nominal GDP was updated on Oct 30th at $29.349924 trillion for 3Q2024.

That yields a ratio of SPX/GDP of 197.35 vs. median of 81.

Stocks remain wildly, obscenely, off-the-chart overvalued.

The formula is GDPx = SPX.

29.35(81) = 2,377.

The market would have to fall 3,415 points just to hit median valuation at current GDP, or about 59%.

You can see a similar analysis here, where the median is 79.7 vs. current 200.7.

Real return from SPX since Aug 2000 is now about 5.1% per annum vs. 7.4% before that (including the Great Depression, the depression of 1920, and every collapse before that going back to 1871), 31% worse.

We are living through developments echoing the lunatic era of the 1920s, which ended in tears.

Owe no man anything . . ..

 

 

 

Real return from stocks since the August 2000 top after 24 years now underperforms the pre-2000 eras by ONLY 33.7% per annum, nominal by 21.3%, yippee! What a great country!

Welcome to the 55th anniversary of Peak America

 

 

long term return from stocks peaked in 1969, 36 years after 1933 (always buy low)

But you said stocks were making all-time highs!

 

S&P 500

Average Real Return, dividends reinvested April 2000-April 2024: 4.65% per annum April 1976-April 2000: 10.45%

As stock indexes make new all time highs, it's still a 7% world, not a 16% world

The current $SPX world, from Aug 2000 (market peak) to Dec 2023, dividends reinvested, average per annum return: 7.019% nominal.

The previous world of similar length, Apr 1977 to Aug 2000: 16.246% nominal.

Remember that no one even dates the bull market conditions of the past starting from 1977. The Reagan bull began in the summer of 1982. But even from 1977, it was a completely different, better world for investors.

The rate of nominal return per annum was 2.31 times better in that world.

Investing $100 per month in the previous world produced over $258k. Investing $100 per month in the current world has produced only $103k.

The following Vanguard mutual funds have inception dates in the year 2000. They reflect the same reality.

I show nominal average annual return since inception for each fund in 2000 through 12/31/23, per Vanguard.

Performance in red beats average SPX nominal 7.019% since 2000, but none by much. Remember that through 12/31/23 stocks generally were only recently buoyed by exceptional returns, after a down year last year. $VTSAX, the total stock market index, was up a whopping 26.01% in 2023.

VIGAX 8.21 Growth Index

VFIAX 7.62  500 Index

VTSAX 7.90  Total Stock Market Index

VEXAX 8.22  Extended Market Index

VSGIX 8.93  Small Cap Growth Index Inst.

VESIX 4.47  European Stock Index Inst.

VSMAX 9.01 Small Cap Index

VBAIX 6.70  Balanced Index Inst.

VBIAX 6.57 Balanced Index

VPKIX 3.40  Pacific Stock Index Inst.

VVIAX 7.18 Value Index

VEMIX 6.37 Emerging Markets Stock Index Inst.

VIPSX 4.49  Inflation Protected Securities

 

These are but a shadow of the former things which obtained in the previous world.

Let's check in on inflation protected securities

 VIPSX, nominal return

Inception 6/29/2000 to August 31, 2023: 4.43% per annum

 

SPX, average nominal return, dividends fully reinvested

June 2000 through August 2023: 6.90% per annum (4.93% without dividend reinvestment)

 

It's been 23 years of not a bull market

 Average real return per annum from $SPX, dividends fully reinvested:

August 2000 to August 2023:  4.23%

August 1977 to August 2000: 11.35%

 

I've seen a bull market . . . A bull market was a friend of mine . . .

 

The difference between then and now is like night and day

 

Total bond market index for long term investors vs. S&P 500

Return for VBMFX, Vanguard's Total Bond Market Index Fund, investor shares, closed to new investors, inception December 1986-December 2022 per annum:

5.08%.

Return for S&P 500, average nominal, dividends fully reinvested, December 1986-December 2022 per annum:

10.28%.

Long-term investment grade bonds for long term investors vs. the S&P 500

Return for VWESX, Vanguard's Long-Term Investment Grade Bond Fund, inception July 1973-December 2022:

7.48%.

Return for S&P 500, average nominal, dividends fully reinvested, July 1973-December 2022:

10.61%.

The Great Long Term Investment Grade Bond Debacle of 2022

Safe havens aren't supposed to do this.

Long term return for VWESX since inception in 1973 near the end of 2018 reached north of 8%.

In 2022 ytd return is -27.28%.

The whole spectrum of bonds as represented by VBTLX is down ytd 14.79%.

Traditional investors with a 60/40 portfolio are down over 20% through yesterday because stocks and bonds both are falling.

Cash is king again.

 

Two conditions need to develop before buying bonds

. . . the trend in the bond market . . . still looks bearish. ...

As yields rise and inflation eases, the relative allure of bond payouts becomes attractive, in absolute and relative terms vs. other assets.

James Picerno, here. 

Yields are indeed rising, but prices are still falling, so no, not quite yet. Bond prices ought to stabilize when inflation finally eases, and so far prices haven't stabilized.

VWESX is instructive.

There's just a handful of years back in the 1980s where the average price of this very long term investment grade bond fund had been below $8 like the current price is today.

That's one reason why Jeffrey Gundlach rightly says that bonds are "wickedly cheap".

But VWESX only just got there on September 20th, hitting $7.99. We're down to $7.88 this weekend.

Meanwhile yields across this investment grade spectrum are bunched up in the fours, with only about 55 basis points difference between the shorts and longs, and intermediates effectively paying the same as or more than longs.

Prices on the longs need to fall a lot more before making them more attractive than intermediates if you are going to settle for only similar yield.

After all, the long term average return of investment grade longs is north of 7.5%, not in the fours.

But what the hell do I know?

Invest, or don't, at your own risk.

Look out below: The 10-yr minus the 2-yr is now lower than at the Aug 2000 market top and 0.01 away from the Mar 2000 level of -0.47